110 replies to this topic

[Master Q]

It's obvious PGI has no intention of ever making LRMs usable.

Played in several matches last night, trying to work my Atlases for a change. The options for an Atlas almost all involve some form of either LRM or SRM loadout.

And then I had an epiphany. I realized: PGI never wants anyone to use LRMs. Ever.

Without exception, the teams I faced were 50% or higher ECM variant mechs. Atlas-D-DDCs, Commando with ECM, Spider with ECM, Raven with ECM, Cicada with ECM. The "Assault" groups were always a set of mechs huddled around an Atlas-D-DDC. The scout groups were ECM'ed to high heaven.

It made a mockery of LRMs. Why even bother carrying them? Sure, I could load on a TAG. But by the time my TAG hits something, and I hold it for long enough to get lock, the enemy has already poptarted or sniped and gone back behind cover. Even when a friendly had both TAG and their own ECM, hoping for a counter+lock to hold for LRM flight times was ridiculous.

Snipe an enemy with PPC, then hit them while their ECM is down? Sure. Except they're still covered by friendly ECMs, and 4 seconds is not long enough for the lock to hold through flight times.

ECM's overpowered nature is what is causing the snipe meta in the game, more than anything else. The ability to carry a riding "off button" for an entire class of weapons is just stupid.

Make it double the lock-on times, or something. But hiding everyone from sensors so thoroughly, functioning as an off-button to an entire weapon class until they're too close to be fired anyways, is making the game terrible.

[xCico]

Lrms are how they suppose to be, PGI did great job with lrms play brawler, sniper try something different

[Roosterfish]

ECM should only work for the mech with it equipped, it shouldn't give the umbrella.

[Helsbane]

First off, you're wrong about Atlas builds. There are a lot of way to outfit one without relying on SRMs or LRMs (and shame on you for wasting a premier brawling platform as a LRM unit). The Atlas isn't fast enough to utilize LRMs effectively. SRMs, sure, but not LRMs. When raining death onto your foes at range, location is key, and with an Atlas, you can't get there fast enough nine out of ten times. Go with a lighter, faster chasis before you condemn LRMs to the rubbish heap.

[wolfmanjake]

Especially once tonnage restrictions are implemented Atlas's should primarily be brawler builds. It is painful to watch an Atlas stand in the back with all that armor, firing as many LRM's as a catapult while the rest of the team dies.

[MeiSooHaityu]

LRMs aren't useful? I have been using them on my Cat C1 now and I think they are doing more work for me then my SRMs did.

I used to avoid LRMs as a PUG due to the lack of reliable fire support per drop, but now with the 12 V 12 drops, I think they are pretty descent (even as a lone PUG). Seems like there is always a mech in the open to rain death on.

Heck, with this 12 v 12 drop system, I think LRMs are finnaly more useful.

[Prezimonto]

LRM's are in a great place when you can use them. ECM and ams make most LRM flights hit like snowballs until you find someone dumb enough to be in the open, on their own in a slow mech without ams support... then they rock the house.

No other weapon in the game has a soft counter (like the ams) to say nothing of a hard counter (ECM) it's actually stupid that one of 3 weapon systems has so many defenses and the others get none.

In addition, LRM users have to expose themselves for great lengths of time OR have a good team comp. In addition, they're the only weapon where taking cover AFTER it's fired is an excellent defensive tactic.

[Screech]

Bring tag and get in under 700m.

And Atlas brawlers only kill the stupid. I know this is still a target rich enviroment, but trying to brawl in one of the slowest mechs in the game is recipe for disaster.

Edited by Screech, 15 August 2013 - 08:37 AM.

[Prezimonto]

And die to PPC/Gauss spam.

[LeShadow]

Yup, don't use LRM at long range. They're mid range weapons. I usually try to get reasonably close, hit 'em with my backup lasers (and TAG, if i have it). By the time the lasers are done, I have lock and send a volley of LRM after 'em. With target retention, there's enough time to guide one or two salvos in, even at mid range, even if the target takes cover immediately. Don't engage snipers at sniping range.

Also, as has been said before, don't put LRM into an Atlas, except maybe as backup weapons.

Edited by LeShadow, 15 August 2013 - 08:27 AM.

[Tatula]

I played my highest scoring game (score: 110) in a Stalker 3F LRM boat, but there was some luck involved. If you happened to get a map with lots of cover, like River City or Forest Colony, you won't do that well in an LRM boat unless you're really good with them. I was lucky on that PUG match and got Tourmaline and caught a few Assault in the open. I've also died many deaths from the LRM steel rain.

What will help is having a spotter. Lights are good at this by getting behind the enemy and maintaining LOS, or running around the enemies and having them targeted. Pick and choose targets you know you're more likely to hit. Don't waste missiles on targets that blinks in and out due to ECM coverage. You can also support your brawlers with LRMs. Your missiles will pound their targets and making their cockpit shake so it's harder for them to aim. It also distract them by making them seek cover instead of trying to fight your brawler.

I am in the camp where I think LRMs are OK right now. It's not overly powerful, although sometimes you'll get 3 or 4 LRM boats on one side with a good Spider spotter and you're toast.

[LordBraxton]

LRMs are strong as hell right now

we must be playing different games

If you can't get decent scores with LRMs right now

I'm blaming the pilot not the weapon

[Lightfoot]

@OP,

You are correct. The players who never intend to use LRMs say LRMs are fine now, and PGI just doesn't realize just how Legion this group of players is. There is just this large group of MechWarrior players who think LRMs are skill-less, dirty, underhanded weapons made for newbs that no honorable player would ever touch. You need to take their opinon and give it the proper weight as a biased view.

Only players that have no favorite weapon type should be taken seriously on LRM balancing. LRMs are just too unliked. However, good LRMs make MechWarrior great gaming, even if they are hated by the legion.

I would say MWO's LRMs would be balanced now if they were fire-and-forget. Meaning you aim, lock-on, launch LRMs, done. This frees the player to use a diverse load-out instead of an LRM boat. Your LRMs do some damage and your other weapons, which fire-and-forget frees you to use, does some.

If MWO is going to continue to make LRMs the hardest weapon to use by requiring the player to maintain a missile lock continuously, they should do very high damage. As good as any direct-fire weapon. Sure make that balanced with Artemis, BAP, TAG, NARC, etc., but the difficulty of using the LRM has to be matched with the damage done. Even if players hate it, it's the only fair thing to do.

[Tskeet]

I impulsively bought a Stalker-3F and outfitted it with 4x15 Artemis-LRM and I get good results most matches. I drop PUG, so if my team is hopeless then I get surrounded and crushed. If my team has scouts who can find targets, mid-range guys who can hold locks, then I can wreak huge damage.

I would say I have many hundreds of games experience with brawling, mid range and sniping, and perhaps 10-20 with LRMs and I can say that it's not that hard. It takes situational awareness, positioning, communication, and most importantly that balance between line-of-sight and not getting alpha'd in the face.

[Kibble]

Regularly getting 500-800 dmg a game in my c1 lrm cat. LRMs are wonderful. Don't EXPECT to get a high dmg or kill count. Use them as support/suppression. Switch targets let them see the incomming missles message and they will back up most of the time. Do that swapping back and forth between their team memebers and watch as your team has time to move up.

Also looking for good firing lines is a fun little mini game for me lol.

Edited by Kibble, 15 August 2013 - 09:04 AM.

[Ranik Kaminski]

ECM is the problem at the moment. They don't represent Tabletop ECM and are basically too plentiful and powerful.

Just one of the many things they haven't translated well from a tabletop game into the current game.

[Lightfoot]

LordBraxton, on 15 August 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

LRMs are strong as hell right now

we must be playing different games

If you can't get decent scores with LRMs right now

I'm blaming the pilot not the weapon

LRM launch tubes are bugged right now. If your mech has the BUG, your LRM20 is now an LRM30, so 2xBUGGED LRM20=LRM60, in which case, LRMs are going at 150% of normal damage and likely seem okay. I think PGI already knows about the LRM tube bug. All LRM launchers are similarly bugged at 150% depending on if your mech has the Bug.

Good thing this is just a Beta test.

Edited by Lightfoot, 15 August 2013 - 09:07 AM.

[I am]

Lightfoot, on 15 August 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

LRMs are skill-less, dirty, underhanded weapons made for newbs that no honorable player would ever touch.

Well said Lightfoot.

[General Taskeen]

I haven't used LRMs since December 2012 with the introduction of Fantasy Missile Shield On/Off switch ECM. I use all direct fire weapons until a new equipment is introduced called DCM - Direct-Fire Counter Measures. When that happens, I'm done.

I used to have fun using LRM5's or an LRM10 on Light Mechs, but no more, fun is not allowed. LRMs and ECM were way better in previous Mech Warrior games and thems is just the facts.

Edited by General Taskeen, 15 August 2013 - 09:13 AM.

[Lord de Seis]

I have played several games in my CPLT-A1 with all LRM's and get 500-600 damage and a couple kills with several assists. LRM's are right where they need to be, they need spotters that have TAG's and BAP's.